The Jewish birthrate in Jerusalem is higher than the Arab birthrate, putting an end to reports of an Arab demographic threat in the united capital.
The birthrate in the expected life of mothers is 4.2 children for Jewish mothers compared with 3.9 children for Arab mothers, according to the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies (JIIS).
Reflecting the trend in the rest of Israel, the birthrate for Jews represents a dramatic reversal and is on the increase while the Arab birthrate is declining.
Yasser Arafat put his hope in the Arab "kuss" (vagina) (not personally, because he was gay).
We put our hope in God. We say the
Shehiyanu prayer (thanking God that we have lived to see this day).
26 comments:
OT: Zionism turns fat California Hispanic girl into sheyne meydele!
Still too fat.
Now you're talking like an Internet person!
A mixed blessing. The babies will grow up to be scientifically ignorant yeshiva bochers sucking welfare throughout their adult lives and making life intolerable for the secular Jews crazy enough to remain there. Jerusalem will become part of the religious Third World.
The babies will grow up to be good Jews, some of them will become Zuckerbergs and others Einsteins.
The babies will grow up to be good Jews, some of them will become Zuckerbergs and others Einsteins.
Bologna. Maybe, if you're lucky, some of their grandchildren or great-grandchildren will grow up to be Einsteins or Zuckerbergs - if they escape the clutches of ultra-Orthodoxy. Of course, Israel has to survive long enough for that. An ever more numerous Jewish Taliban in Jerusalem might provoke the next big regional war instead, and they will do their best to make life intolerable for the seculars. Really, your scenario isn't likely.
I hate the phrase "Christian Taliban" or "Jewish Taliban". It's nonsense. We're civilized people, not tribalistic Central Asian barbarians.
The ultra-Orthodox, in their current state of limited local power, are willing to resort to physical intimidation to enforce outsiders to observe their standards. For instance, assaulting women who won't ride at the back of (public) buses run for the benefit of their community, throwing rocks at drivers on Shabbat, intimidating little modern Orthodox schoolgirls who don't observe Haredi dress, etc. What do you think they will be like as their share of the population increases? More to the point, what do you think that Israel would be like if they were the dominant political and religious force? There is a historical precedent, the Zealots, for whom the phrase "Jewish Taliban" could fit. I don't think it's so off target for the current ultra-Orthodox either.
Why do you see the religious as a threatening force? All they want is to be left alone in their neighborhoods.
The ultra-Orthofox are not universally threatening yet, but it is worrisome that they are already so aggressive. To some extent, they create "their" neighborhoods by making life intolerable for even modern Orthodox (e.g. the little schoolgirl they were harassing) to the point that they leave. As their numbers grow and they gain more political power, it will get a lot worse. Where will the non-Orthodox flee when the ultra-Orthodox control most of the country?
"Why do you see the religious as a threatening force? All they want is to be left alone in their neighborhoods."
They are like Christians in the beginning, not threatening for society at large. It's a numbers game. They are becoming more aggressive and assertive as their numbers grow.
I don't see them as a threatening force by any means. They are not a threat to me so I like them. Pretty nice show they will bring and that is something I want to see.
After 2000 years Jahweh's boys are coming back.
What's not to like for an observer of history?
Of course I suppose J might wish that the secular Zionist state survives in its present form. Only problem that it was just a stage in the evolution of the people. A nice one but a stage non-the-less.
I dont wish the secular socialist Israeli state to stay as it is. Everything changes all the time and it seems that Israel is changing for the good.
I forgot to mention that among the future Einsteins and Zuckerbergs growing up in the religious kindergartens, little Bernie Madoff is taking his first steps.
There are no future Einsteins or Zuckerbergs growing up in haredi kindergartens. Religious studies will take up so much of their time and energy that there will be the no time for them to develop knowledge of advanced computer science or physics. Some of the haredim have even instituted internet bans. That lot is going to produce a future Zuckerberg? It isn't so just because you wish it so, J.
I agree with teo on one point, the rise of the ultra-Orthodox will be an interesting show, perhsps with lots of "fireworks." Better to read about it in a history book on the other side. Less fun to live through it.
Zuckerberg is not a good model...Facebook is stupid, and a scam.
Also he stole the idea from WASPs.
There are many scientists like Prof. Amann who are religious - haredi.
Once it was common knowledge that studying the gemara developed your mind and made one very smart at business.
My haredi students are very persistent and study the problems with patience and from all angles. Some make me stay after class to explain once and again the problems.
And your haredi students plus all the other haredi students of advanced science make up what percent of the haredi population, J?
I think you have to distinguish between "modern Orthodox" and Hasidim - the latter want nothing to do with secular education.
K
That is my supposition as well, K. J doesn't want to acknowledge what a terrible risk haredization/hasidization is to Israel's potential future wealth and stability.
Hasidization is a disease that can be cured in a generation or two (think of the Nobel winning author Singer whose father was a Hasidic rebbe). Extinction is incurable - the future belongs to those who show up. If you want to fight Hasidization, make sure your daughter marries at 18 and has 10 or 12 children instead of getting 5 graduate degrees and waiting 'til she is 39 and needs in vitro .
K
K
Hasidization can be cured, but pressure has to be applied to achieve it. In Eastern Europe, that pressure came from the forces of haskalah and hostile gentile society. Likewise, American society demanded assimilation in the early 20th century. Factories required people to work on Saturday, and people with long beards and sidecurls could only function within their community. In a haredi/hasid state, I'm not sure that there would be enough internal pressure to reverse the trend.
The two poles of Judaism are Leftist/feminist lunacy and insane, restrictive anti-science Orthodoxy. I don't really have a home in Judaism, don't care that much about Jewish continuity, and probably won't have any children. I do want Israel to stay secular long enough that I will have a migration-place of last resort in case Jew-haters get their turn at power in the U.S., though.
There is no contradiction between Haredi religiousness and a business life, serving in the army or working in a factory. American haredim are completely selfsupporting (if poor), and Israeli ones are - I presume - mostly so. I see them working all over the place.
. I don't really have a home in Judaism, don't care that much about Jewish continuity, and probably won't have any children. I do want Israel to stay secular long enough that I will have a migration-place of last resort in case Jew-haters get their turn at power in the U.S., though.
This is a bizarre statement. You dislike Jew-haters but don't care about Jews?
Not so bizarre when you understand Judaism as an ethnicity. I can't change what I was born, but after I'm dead, it doesn't matter.
Or did you mean not so bizarre when you understand Jewish experience as being in the crosshairs of all these haters, waiting for the stuff to hit the fan. And very little you can do about it.
Certainly one could view the situation like that, Anonymous 7:34. I think some people delude themselves into thinking that Israel/Zionism provides the constructive solution to those problems, but it doesn't, at least not for all of us. First, Israel is incredibly vulnerable, from within and without. Then, my views are totally marginalized among living Jews. There just aren't many secular conservatives among us, and I dislike PC leftism about as much as I dislike Orthodox Judaism. Despite the fact that outsiders won't let me avoid bearing the Jewish label and all of the opprobrium that it brings, I don't have much interest in Jewish continuity. That's different from disliking or even not caring about Jews.
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